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Home > Slap in Face or Night of Passion ?

Slap in Face or Night of Passion ?

March 1st, 2010 at 05:23 pm

To relate this idea to finances - background - I'm a single male who desires to share physical pleasure with a woman I find attractive from time to time (once a week would be awesome... given that the distance between my seduction "successes" would from a scientific point of view probably be best measured in Geological Time).

Sex is important to me. Currently it resides in the realm of concept/fantasy. But recently I have become aware of how I "overthink" myself out of action in many areas of my life - including finding a lover. I want to stop thinking so much. And enjoy my body and allow my body to be enjoyed by others also. I am an animal-lover (that sounds so wrong in this context but you know what I mean !) and envy the way in which dogs (for example) sleep when they want to sleep, eat when they want to eat, drink what they want to drink and attempt to mount an attractive female when they want to... you know... there is something so honest and natural in it that it is beautiful.

They are playing out their minor (to the Universe) but major (to them) roles in the Greater Scheme of Things. Without Shame, Embarrassment or Guilt.

Why posting this on a Finance blog ?

Money I have spent in pursuit of a Sex Life:

1. Clothes.
2. Pick-up books (lost faith in these).
3. Drinks for women (have stopped doing this a long time ago).
4. Gone to Bars/Clubs thousands of times hoping to interact with attractive women.

Money I don't want to spend to attract sex:

1. Mortgage to jointly own a home with my lover in order to hold onto her.
2. Fancy gifts to hold onto a woman who I may feel (egotistically) unworthy of. Objectively I know all humans are equal worth-wise.
3. Paying for Dinner Dates when I'm more interested in getting the Lady into bed than finding out what she is really like.
4. Travelling to places like South America/Russia where I would be hoping that my European citizenship and relative economic superiority would allow me attract really hot girls who wouldn't pay attention to me in my home country.

You get the gist. Us men (some of us) can spend an awful lot of money in pursuit of a sex-life. Yes - in that department a lot of us are one-trick result-orientated self-serving ponies. We're designed so perhaps.

But does it have to be so ?

Especially when we are no longer expected to be the main Provider/Bread-winner ?

You see I don't really want a relationship. I want a sex-life. I don't want to lead a woman into thinking I want a relationship when I don't.

What is my point ?

I just read a blog of a former Call Girl (Belle du Jour) who has a best Male Friend who successfully operates a policy of telling a girl he has just met in a public place that he is more into having sex with her than marrying her (paraphrasing). Apparently he is very successful with this approach. What do you think ?

Should I stop seeing a sex-life as the end result of successfully passing the 3 month on-the-job-dating-screening-out-the-players-role-play that a lot of women seem to want to put men through and just go up to an attractive women and let her know that I find her attractive, tell her I'm interested in her physically and hope she's interested ?

Help !

I know it is SO true that you have to love yourself before anyone else loves you. For me I am more comfortable/content with myself than I have ever been in my life. A massive amount of self-love (resulting in attracting love) isn't the goal for me - a half-regular sex-life is.

I know my enlightenment as a human being is a far bigger experience than enjoying physical pleasure with a woman from time-to-time but I just want to dance that dance and enjoy myself that way.

Thoughts please ? Should I just act and react to what my body is telling me when I see a beautiful woman or should I continue to talk myself out of doing anything (she'd never be interested in me/ she probably has better things to think about at the moment/I couldn't afford to date a girl like that)?

38 Responses to “Slap in Face or Night of Passion ?”

  1. momcents Says:

    I think you have nothing to lose (other than a lost opportunity) by following your (animal) instinct to interact with a woman you find attractive. It might lead somewhere, it might not. But at least you have tried. And you might be pleasantly surprised by the outcome. Confession: I discovered my husband's internal wonderful qualities after I pined away for him, admiring his physical attractiveness and thinking I wasn't "as attractive" as he was.

  2. Apprentice Bliss Hunter Says:

    Thanks momcents for sharing... I havn't thought before about women who don't feel as attractive as the object of their affections... Stupidly I thought a woman wouldn't understand requited desire - that just shows my lack of experience in that arena.

    Yeah...my sexual mojo feels so worn-down by repetitive conditioned negative self-talk that it is like walking in a desert.

    I would like to get back to the place before I as a human being became a slave to the internal mental monologue and just do what my body tells me to do (respecting the other persons wishes of course !!)

    I think the lack of a sex-life is like the drop of ink in a glass of water - it is blowing itself out of proportion.

    If I could live that part of my life naturally and fulfillingly ( is that a word ! lol) I think it would shrink back to being a small aspect of who I am.

  3. whitestripe Says:

    well, look at it this way: what's the absolute worst that could happen? you get rejected. ok, not the bestest feeling in the world, but atleast you gave it ago. like momcents says, you might be surprised by the outcome.

  4. debtfreeme Says:

    Why aren't you interested in a relationship?

  5. nmboone Says:

    I would personally be creeped out by a date telling me all he wanted to do is have sex and didn't care about anything else. I know it's not like that for every women, but that's just how I would feel.

  6. miclason Says:

    You want a "friend with rights".... I would say in that case it IS best to be honest and have "the Talk"... at least make it clear that you´re really not looking for a relationship right now. If the woman also wants a friend with rights, great, if not, at least she´s not building this idea in her head that you two will end up together and, if she does want a meaningful relationship, she´ll just go her own way...

  7. Apprentice Bliss Hunter Says:

    Thanks for the comments !

    I'm pretty content with my life as a whole at the moment. I don't think I need a relationship to be happy. This may sound like I'm damaged goods but I've never had a long-term relationship so it may be a case of I don't know what I'm missing.

    Anyways... the idea of a relationship being the "the price" I have to pay for a sex-life does not sit well with me.

    I realize that it is possible that I could meet an amazing woman next month, have a whirlwind romance and get married in 6 months... Fine... if it happens... it happens.. but it will be for the right reasons - I want to spend my life with her - instead of it just being about sex.

    I think it is maybe politically incorrect for a man to say he just wants to satisfy his physical desires and not at least offer the hope of commitment down the road.

    Maybe it's just got to do with how men and women are "wired" differently.

  8. claudia Says:

    Umm, I don't think you'll get very far telling a woman you only want sex. Good luck with it, though.

    And as long as you continue to feel "I'm more interested in getting the Lady into bed than finding out what she is really like," you won't have any luck anyway because women can see right through that.

    Honestly, it seems like men are willing to have sex with anything that remotely resembles a vagina, so someone's desire to have sex with me is no special compliment, and I would find it very offensive if a man told me he wasn't really interested in what I was like, he just wanted sex.

    So, look, I have a simple solution for you. If sex is all you want, why don't you just cut to the chase and have sex with a prostitute? At least then you'll both be getting what you want and no feelings hurt.

  9. sharon Says:

    Here is the ultimate dilemma...

    In nearly every single relationship I've had with a man, you meet a nice guy, you start dating and the man tries to have sex with you as quickly as possible, whereas I try to forestall sex as long as possible, my aim being to get to know the guy before sleeping with him. It's always an unspoken contest of wills to see which way things go. Of course, the woman holds the most power, but when I was younger and insecure, I would often cave in to pressures the man put on me. Now that I'm older, that doesn't happen as much.

    Here's a funny one. I met this guy, very nice, we seemed very compatible with similar interests, etc. We hadn't been dating that long, maybe a month or so, when he actually asks me point blank when i thought e were going to sleep together. I was a little taken aback by the question, but i just laughed it off, saying who knows, maybe on our thousandth date. Instead of just dropping it, he persisted and said no, really, when do you think we'll have sex? I told him i don't know, when the time is right. Obviously that hadn't happened yet. Anyway, the relationship broke up weeks after that for other reasons, and I'm SO glad i didn't cave in to pressure and sleep with him, only to see the relationship over before it had barely started. That's the way a woman thinks. Sleeping with someone is an INVESTMENT in someone, and you don't invest in someone lightly. I don't sleep with someone until I feel I'm ready to commit to a solo relationship with them, and unfortunately for men, it's just the opposite. They want to have sex first and then "see" how the relationship progresses, if it does at all.

    Why do I want to delay sex with someone I just met? Becus I don't want to sleep with every Tom, Dick & Harry. That would make me a slut and I wouldn't feel very good about myself. For a man, on the other hand, there are no such moral compunctions and indeed sleeping with a lot of women would only raise other men's impressions of you to new heights.

  10. pjmama Says:

    I think this really comes down to personal style in terms of relationships (or the lackthereof). I've certainly been in your boat in the past-- looking for a fun, sexual relationship without the responsibilities and messiness of a relationship. Thankfully as a woman, finding a "friend with benefits" is a much easier task than it is for a man. But the good news is that there are women out there that are also looking for the same kind of setup, for whatever reason. I dont think there's anything wrong with it. Different people at different places in their lives are obviously going to want different things. Though that's something I wanted back then, it's not necessarily what I want now (I'm very happy in a very serious relationship now).

    The most important thing I can stress to you, though, is dont be a big sleaze about it. You seem like a smart enough guy, so I'm assuming you have at least a little strength in your moral fiber. Being manipulative is BS and inexcusable. I'm not saying that you would be such, but please dont. Having open and honest conversation with your date PRIOR to hitting the bedroom is really important. If she's looking for something different, then you just go your separate ways.

    If you feel you're spending too much money, perhaps try using an internet dating service (still prob cheaper than the list of items you priced up there) to find someone who is looking for the same kind of arrangement. Again, you dont really have anything to lose. Why not?

  11. Apprentice Bliss Hunter Says:

    Thanks for the comments !

    Claudia - Reasons why I don't want to pay for sex with a prostitute:

    1. I can't be sure if she's doing it out of her own free will or not. i.e. is there a pimp involved ?
    2. Sex is more special than a commercial transaction.
    3. I want the woman involved to enjoy it as much as I do.
    4. I want to feel desired - not like somebody's job.

    Sharon - Thanks for sharing a woman's viewpoint. I think the critical difference is that I don't view sex as an investment - its just sharing a pleasurable experience. I know women are emotionally wired to be selective about partners but I don't want to feel like a donkey being lured by a carrot into a stable and then having the door slammed shut behind him ! lol

    pjmama - I have tried Internet Dating before with limited success - I much prefer meeting people in person. Internet dating can seem so impersonal, uninspired and unexciting.

    How many times have you heard women complaining about a man losing interest after "he got what he wanted all along". I think we need to take it as a given fact that the vast majority of men on this planet would rather have sex with an attractive women than be celibate - given the choice. And there is nothing wrong with that. In fact the survival of the species depends on it.

    Why does it have to be a choice between misleading a woman into letting her think she is "The One" on one hand or paying for sex with prostitutes on the other ?

    Maybe pjmama is right... Internet sites with like-minded women maybe the only societally acceptable solution. But even that stinks of brushing the issue under the carpet and out of the light of day - relegating it to cyberspace.

    Is being honest upfront so unacceptably radical ? Or is playing the dating game (and the huge chances of heartbreak for the woman) the only game in town ?

  12. Caoineag Says:

    You can probably find a woman locally that wants a friends with benefits relationship. You are just going to need to be prepared for a lot of rejection. You have to play a numbers game because more women want a romantic relationship (even if its casual) than a strictly sexual relationship. Which means flirting with lots of women before you find one interested in what you are offering and lots of being turned down.

  13. LittleMsMom Says:

    I guess if you just want SEX and no relationship (One night stand); you are going to have to find out where other people who are looking for the same are coming together.

    Just be careful because there are alot of diseases out there, I think that is why most people shy away from that kind of thing when they are single/young.

    I think the whole idea of just going up to a woman/girl and saying I want your body and not a relationship is really going to bomb in some sitations (Grocery store, daycare, police department); but might workout in others (Bar, Night Club, Concert, Party).

    Good Luck!

  14. ceejay74 Says:

    I would agree with pjmama's statements--these women are out there who aren't ready for or looking for a relationship. Probably mostly women in their mid-20s, maybe early 30s, who are enjoying an independent life, before the real urge to settle down and raise a family hits.

    It can get messy trying for those kinds of involvements at work or even in school, though, so that leaves you with a few options: bars/clubs, Internet dating sites, friends' parties, or approaching people in broad daylight (street, coffee shop, bookstore). I personally have never used the last one; but I had a handful of guys approach me out of the blue like that, and I at least went for coffee or lunch with a couple of them, so I suppose the possibility of more might have materialized if I'd been attracted to them.

    To me, bars work because at least people won't be surprised if they get hit on, even if they don't respond. I've had success in this arena and a couple of guys who approached me have at least gotten a date. Internet dating works because the interest on both sides is explicit, and you can be upfront on your profile and in your e-mails that you're looking for experiences vs. a relationship. Again, this has worked for me. Friends of friends are great because they're semi-vouched for, so having encounters with someone you meet at a friend's party can be quite fun. But yeah, as Caoineag says, it's going to involve a certain amount of rejection if you're a guy. I'm not a beauty queen by anyone's standards but I was rarely if ever rejected if I made a serious play for a guy. (Probably they were so relieved to not have the burden of pursuing on them for once.) But there were guys that I turned down.

    I think when I was out there in the dating scene, I was open to one-night stands and recurring casual encounters. But even the most enlightened girl still has the weight of society's judgment on her shoulders, even if she tries to reject it. So if you're TOO blunt about "I don't care much about getting to know you and I definitely am not interested in a relationship," you could make it too hard for a girl to not start feeling "cheap" and "slutty" and "used," even if she's thinking the EXACT same thing and feels the same way as you.

    Example: I was e-mailing back and forth with a guy from an Internet dating site, and he wrote once that he envisioned me being someone he "would never bring home to meet my parents." Well of course the thought of meeting his parents had never crossed my mind, nor anything approaching that, but as soon as he said it I was COMPLETELY turned off and terminated the correspondence without ever meeting him in person.

    I know it sounds like hypocritical or flaky, but you really have to understand the centuries of baggage passed on to women. Have a little sympathy and try not to be so brutally honest that they can't escape this heritage.

  15. monkeymama Says:

    Good comments already:

    My thoughts:

    *PLENTY of women looking for a one-night stand. Or "Friends with benefits." & even if the girl wants a relationship, she'll always think she can change you. Wink All my friends want serious relationships but are promiscuous all the same. Just think it will happen or something.

    *I would pick up girls in a bar. It will work. I wouldn't approach women in public. I know others commented the same thing, but what I Was thinking too. (Dating site is a good idea).

    *It probably depends if you come off confident/cool OR if you come off desparate/creepy. Practice confident/cool. LOL.

    *I think women are more concerned about monogamy than anything. I would certainly be turned off by a guy who saw no future and wanted to sleep around with anything. BUT, honestly, a sexual relationship - monogomaus - with no long-term commitment, actually sounds kind of appealing. The only problem with that is one side - either side - will always get more emotionally involved than the other. It just happens, and can't ever be clean as people wish.

    *I can see your reservations about a prostitute, but then what you want becomes merely a fantasy. Where there is people and emotions, not sure it is EVERY quite so easy!

  16. miz pat Says:

    OK, I have to say this! Masturbation + Fantasizing may be safer.

    Now that I got that over (and it was hard, let me tell you), I appreciate your honesty.

    Perhaps a personal advertisement in the local paper explaining what you are looking for - get a post office box to send replies to.

    I wish you well. My ability to discuss this just blew up, so take care.

  17. Apprentice Bliss Hunter Says:

    Thanks again for the comments !

    Ceejay74 - Thanks so much for yet again coming to my rescue in these off-the-wall posts of mine. I really appreciate your thoughts and advice. But be careful and watch your blood pressure etc.. only a week to go ! :-)

    Ok.. I've learned today that women - through the condensed drip of 100,000s of years of societal pressure and norms, are VERY concerned with not been seen as cheap, easy or slutty. In 2010, women are still judged by Victorian standards by society at large. Ok.. I understand that. I don't want to cause any distress to any woman.

    What is disappointing about this is that my pick-up books (which I have now ditched) hit the nail on the head about a lot of the comments above - that Women are very concerned with peer pressure and that you have to learn to navigate through the societally-conditioned barriers that a Woman puts up by pretending to be something you are not.

    I just thought that instead of playing mind-games and manipulating a woman's emotional reactions, I would just be honest with them.

    But that appears to be unacceptable. Women would prefer to be sold a line to make them feel not slutty.

    I think maybe the sticking point is that women put a value on access to their sexuality (and commitment is the price) while men don't. Simple as. Perhaps ! lol

    Anyway.. Thank you all for your comments. I didn't mean to upset any of you. I'm just trying to free myself from my own conditioned mental habits and this area is in need of attention.

  18. ceejay74 Says:

    Don't sound so despondent! I think you got a lot of different POVs and I thought you'd be encouraged that not all of us said it was skanky to just want sex. Smile
    "I think maybe the sticking point is that women put a value on access to their sexuality (and commitment is the price) while men don't. Simple as. Perhaps !"

    Well, for some, but I still think there are ways to make a woman feel her sexuality is valued without commitment. Seriously! You can make her feel special and interesting and still be open that you're not looking for commitment. In fact the kind of women who are open for what you're looking for might not want to hear commitment talk. But compliments, conversation, flirting, genuine interest in her personality, these are things you can give freely without promising to marry her. LOL!

    Anyway, good luck. I genuinely would like to see you succeed in having some fun. ;-)

  19. Apprentice Bliss Hunter Says:

    Thanks Ceejay ! Yes the differing viewpoints do give me hope that there is a female equivalent of me floating around out there somewhere ! :-)

  20. momcents Says:

    Wow, this went full-circle! I don't think you are alone in what you desire - an occasional fun romp. I have a best friend who had no desire to be married, but misses sex. She can't be the only one out there. And she is past the point of buying into the whole commitment thing. Keep up your chin, and don't underestimate a potential encounter.

  21. nmboone Says:

    I wish I could introduce you to a girlfriend of mine. She's always going up to guys and asking if they want to be her f*** buddy. Never in a relationship I would say wear a condom though if you went with it. If you're ever in Baton Rouge, La. let me know, lol!

  22. Apprentice Bliss Hunter Says:

    Thanks Guys !

    I think the best thing is to just do it and not talk about it before hand.

    Women value male discretion VERY highly due to above-mentioned societal retributions for a woman who is seen to be generous with her wares so to speak.

    Yeah... It's a pity we have to dance around the twitching curtain syndrome and not just communicate directly and honestly as adults.

    Such is life I guess.

    The Male can either be the silent/shadowy/on-call provider of fun for an independent enlightened woman OR he can be that Jerk who fooled a woman into sleeping with him - allowing the woman to walk away from the encounter blameless.

    I think I'm definitely over-thinking this. This is one area where a grain of experience is better than a mountain of thought.

  23. momcents Says:

    Your last statement says it best!

  24. Broken Arrow Says:

    Wow. I am quite surprised at your candidness. I don't know if it's cultural distinctions or personality, but I'm glad that you can be honest and upfront about it. Smile

    I know I'm a guy, I'm similarly single, and you've already gotten some great comments. But please humor me for a moment because I can't resist saying something about this:

    1. No matter what you decide to do or what happens, please have respect for the person in front of you.
    I don't think this is a problem for you at all, but it's so important that it requires mentioning just the same. At the end of the day, a human being is still a creature of emotion, and I do think women in general will be hurt by someone who conveys the basic message of, "I don't care about who you are. I'm just here for your vagina." Certainly, it doesn't have to be crude, or that you may not even be thinking it quite that way, but if we are not careful, that's still how some women may interpret it.

    2. Please consider a reputable escort service.
    No joke! I don't know the details of regional legality, but I hear there are a lot of very attractive European women who work in high end escort services. These escorts do get monthly health check-ups, and what's more, can be picky about their clients. So, overall, there is less health risk.

    They are expensive, but I honestly do think this is the most straightforward way to get what you are looking for. Because no matter how we spin this, this is exactly what it is: A business exchange. You only want sex, preferably with beautiful women. There are beautiful women who can offer you that service, if you pay them.

    3. Never underestimate a woman's emotions.
    This is just to re-emphasize something that has been mentioned already, but with women who are not professional escorts, sooner or later, emotions and emotional issues will eventually be involved.

    I'm sure women who just want to have sex and nothing more exist, but that's just not something you want to count on.

    There's probably more, but I'm not here to lecture you or anything. I'm in no position to do that anyways. I just feel very strongly about these few points. Good luck out there!

  25. Apprentice Bliss Hunter Says:

    Thanks BA. I agree fully with your points 1 and 3.

    I don't want to consider point 2 at the moment. For various reasons including the ones I gave above in another comment - also I want to feel the thrill and excitement of meeting an "equal" and not a paid contractor so to speak.

    God I feel so dirty now. As if I have some moral weakness - I think my mistake was sharing my thoughts with the outside world, instead of just picking up "fun" where I find it and not saying anything about it.

  26. momcents Says:

    Apprentice Bliss Hunter,

    You've been candid and honest. This is all done annonymously, so you needn't worry about how we perceive you. To a degree, men and women are different, but ultimately share the same fundamental needs and wants. I've been married for almost 20 years to the same man and we've had six children - five surviving. Sometimes DH just wants a "quickie". Now with the chaos that we have going around with five kids and life in general, a "quickie" is fine with me. Doesn't need to me some long drawn-out leisure love session. I've assured him that I take no offense at his suggestion. And while I'm not exactly comparing it to your quest, I understand the male mindset. Good luck in your quest.

  27. miz pat Says:

    Actually Momcents, I think Bliss would like a long glorious session of leisure love. NOt a quickie at all.

    And for pity's sakes, he's being honest about what he needs. I think he deserves a 2010 candor award for honesty in relationships.

  28. ceejay74 Says:

    "God I feel so dirty now. As if I have some moral weakness"

    And there you have the sudden internal reaction that a girl might also have who wants to step outside the cultural assumptions about sexuality. And you got that feeling from just the gentlest of remonstrations from Broken Arrow!

    Take it from me, a seasoned authority--when you deviate from the one man, one woman, commitment-oriented path that everyone is expected to want to go down automatically, you do feel dirty from time to time. You just have to straighten your shoulders, realize that you know you're not a bad person, and carry on the way that feels natural to you. I think all BA was saying was respect yourself and respect the other person. The fact that you are so quick to "feel dirty" about this subject I think shows that you are sensitive, you aren't looking for an excuse to steamroll over others. I don't think there's anything wrong with talking this out on an anonymous forum, as momcents says. Very few of us think there's anything controversial about what you're proposing.

    "I think my mistake was sharing my thoughts with the outside world, instead of just picking up "fun" where I find it and not saying anything about it."

    I think it's cool that you're thinking things through to this extent. But yes, at some point you should let the inner monologue die down and just go out and try to manifest what you've been thinking about.

  29. princessperky Says:

    I have never understood dating as a means to an end....
    Folk seem to look at it as a way to find a mate (temporary or long term) I don't get that. Dating is the end, it is just a fun event, with a partner or without.

    You might think I cheat, since I do have a steady mate now. But I didn't find him by dating. I mean I did date, but he just appeared. No tricks, no hunt, OK I might be spoiled.

    I always looked at dating as a fun event, I would still enjoy it, if I had the energy, 4.5 kids takes it all out of me.

    Who wants to go bowling alone? Or bother to dress with no one to say 'wow'. (even married folk appreciate a well timed 'Wow') Or go to a movie, alone? Who can you complain with when the plot sucks, or rehash the best parts with? Why pay to eat out if you have only yourself to talk to? (When I waitressed the alone folk either had a book/paper or flirted with their fav waitress/waiter, can't see it being much fun any other way).

    I can't think of a single activity I would do just to find a mate too much work! I only put up with mine 'cause I love him. But I can think of tons of 'dating' things I enjoyed (and still do) purely for the sake of the enjoyment.

    I also don't get why any of those activities would tend to lead to a mate any more than heading to the bank would.

    Anyway IMO, if you don't like the activities, stop. If you do like them, enjoy them with or without followup sex. (you might find they are more fun if you are not wondering how much longer till you get to the sex.)

    Not that you should become celibate. No need for that any more than a need to give up any dating activity, just don't assume every girl wants to any more than every girl wants to bowl/play chess/drink/etc.

    Treating dating like a means to sex, is like treating foreplay as a means to the climax...you miss out on all the fun. (and considering there are 4.5 possible interruptions here I know to enjoy every non-kid moment to it's fullest!)

    But I am in the minority in these thoughts so feel free to disregard them completely.

  30. Apprentice Bliss Hunter Says:

    Thanks All for your comments !

    I found this really useful. I was going to say a lot of food for thought - but then maybe too much "thought" has led me down this overdose of self-examination.

    I'm going to try to act as nature intended, interact with girls and maybe go on a few dates. I'm not going to tell them I want nothing but sex from them. I don't think that will fly.

    I think I'll try the traditional asking girls out thing, dating thing and see what happens.. I'll keep an open mind.

    Thanks All ! :-)

  31. Apprentice Bliss Hunter Says:

    To conclude and as thanks 2 videos of my Hero !! LOL :-)



  32. momcents Says:

    May your days of this be done:


    and let this serve as a reminder to you that you are not alone ...

  33. Apprentice Bliss Hunter Says:

    Haha ! Brilliant momcents !

    Hard to believe Mick Jagger got no satisfaction (hear those girls screaming !) ! lol But yes - A Kindred Spirit ! lol

  34. Broken Arrow Says:

    Hey, I just want to be clear that I'm glad you can be honest and upfront like this over the relative anonymity of the internet. That's a good thing, and in return, you're getting lots of great suggestions in here from the others.

    I dump plenty my own personal issues online as well, and I'm glad you guys can put up with it. So, I too am grateful to be able to enjoy such a supportive community.

  35. terri77 Says:

    I think your best bet is to get involved in a swingers club. I'm not being facetious. I think you'll find many people that share your ideas.

  36. ambitioussaver Says:

    I should have read this entry awhile ago. I work for a company that started out in this area. Look up "Pick up Artists" or "Double Your Dating". As a girl working in the operations side of things for a "guru", I had to review the products. At times, as I was watching the DVDs and listening to the audio tapes, I'd walk away mortified & insulted but also knew that is EXACTLY how/why girls fall for the jerks and bad guys. I'm not trying to "sell" their products... but I'm just saying that your blog reminded me about the principal segment of our business that got our company running. Another guy to look into would be "Mystery". Weird guy in my opinion, but he boasts about being able to get a girl in bed that same night & that you didn't have to be rich or powerful to do this and he had his own VH1 show.

    All this said, my company eventually branched out and started developing actual relationship advice for a variety of individuals. They still offer the core segment of their business but its become one aspect of a variety of markets that they target.

    Yet, learning about men and the way their minds work... I'm not going to pretend that guys don't have fantasies, desires, that don't entail a relationship.

    In a way, I admire that you're upfront about this. MUCH better than men who cheat on their wives or lead women on. You may come off as being a jerk, but if you work the angle you can make it appealing to some women too (hence, why I said look up "Pick up Artists" or PUAs)

  37. Broken Arrow Says:

    Ambitioussaver, you WORK for a company that sells products and services for... Pick-up artists? Are you serious? Now there's one for the resumes. Big Grin

    So, yeah, I've thought about that before, and yes, being a guy on the internet, I've even seen a few videos on that as well. Well, it seems to be effective anyways, and yeah, I guess that would work well in Bliss hunter's case, since that appears to be the basic objective....

    The thing that gets me about pick-up "artistry" is that quantity and results are the end game, and concern and respect for the women you are working on are secondary, and optional. I don't like that. That's not something I believe in, and therefore, that's why I am reluctant to ever recommend it.

    But that's also part of the reason why it can and does work well in some occasions, because so much of it does rely on being that jerk that can be callous so that they can resort to deception and manipulation-- and be convincing all the while-- to get things their way.

    And feel free to argue me on this one, but I think that the things they do right (breaking the ice, finding a common ground, keeping the pace, even push/pull sometimes), regular people can do it with respect and even compassion. Often times, it's all in how you deliver your message, right? You tell me.

    I don't know. I'm just not a fan of pick-up artistry in general. They can work, but really, at what cost. Still, I find the idea that you work for a company like that fascinating. How in the world did you fall into that, and what do you honestly think of it?

  38. ambitioussaver Says:

    Broken Arrow, there definitely is a way to do all this with respect. I think the biggest reason I walk away mortified is cause it worked on me with my husband. In short, I'm not the kind of girl who dates nice guys. Ok, I take that back... I'll date a nice guy, I'll just walk all over him if he doesn't give me a challenge. I've been so used to getting things handed to me based on my looks, having a guy worship you is... boring. So when you get a guy who throws you for a loop and *gasp* actually has a life that intrigues you, you're interested. I complain sometimes how my DH has a life of his own, a life I'm not going to ever be privy to thanks to the Navy... but at times its sexy and alluring.

    And he doesn't fall for the mind games I used to play. No, he cuts through BS, calls it like he sees it, and doesn't put up with it. Even now, he's sweet... make me coffee in the morning and do things if he knows it makes me happy. But the minute I play the nagging wife - he puts his foot down. And truth is, I respect him more for it. First guy I've been with that I know he won't let me walk over him and I actually love him MORE for it. I'm not in love with a servant, I'm in love with a partner.

    So the pick-up artistry... eh, I'm insulted at times. Some guys really are just wanting to get laid. And if thats the case, I'll at least admire them for their honesty. Keep in mind, there are just as many women who want that too.

    The company eventually evolved... the founder evolved. I think thats why I have stayed, its not about manipulation - at least with this guy. I genuinely feel he cares about his company and the people he works for. He's no longer really a Pick Up artist. He found a girlfriend, and got in touch with other gurus to help people in their relationships. After the company got successful enough, he now offers advice to helping businesses. The core part about double your dating is still offered but thats just a step in the series.

    A lot of people don't have dating experience so they want to learn how to get in there first and then choose who they want to be with. Eventually, most people get bored of it, find a relationship and settle down. But that first step still exists, so you can't ignore it. I think on some level we all need that, to know we're with someone cause out of everyone else - we want that one person. How can we know that if we don't date around? And how can we do that if we struggle to meet & date people? What about our physical needs in this process?

    But I found the job because I knew the HR manager, we were both pregnant with our kids at the same time & after knowing each other for a year, she told me about the opportunity. I'm glad because with DH's lifestyle, its the one job that has allowed me to keep it despite moving so much.

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